还有人说中国有侵略性?联合国专家笑了,“照照镜子吧”

subtitle 中国日报 09-19 09:14

导读

“中国在现代历史和传统中,保持稳定的时间比世界上任何其他国家都要长。”在中国日报新时代大讲堂上,联合国可持续发展行动网络领导委员会主席杰弗里·萨克斯称:“过去40年里,中国从未参与过任何的海外战争,与此同时美国自1980年以来,参与了十几场战争。如果还有人声称中国是一个侵略性的国家,就太荒谬了。照照镜子吧。”

戳视频↓

杰弗里·萨克斯
联合国可持续发展行动网络领导委员会主席
“新时代大讲堂”
英文演讲
《中国说全世界一起,这才是正确的做法》
(略有删节,中文为译文)

中国为减少全球贫困作出巨大贡献

可持续发展的理念是全世界应该共享一个繁荣、公平、环境可持续发展的经济体系。可持续发展的理念将经济目标、社会正义和环境可持续发展结合起来,这是一个极其重要的概念,因为它的目的是让地球上每个人都拥有美好生活。

The idea of sustainable development is that the whole world should enjoy an economic system that is prosperous, that is fair, and that is environmentally sustainable. So the idea of sustainable development is to combine the economic objectives, the social justice, and the environmental sustainability. It's an extremely important concept because it basically points to a good life for everybody on the planet.

联合国193个成员国两次确认可持续发展的承诺,先是2015年的《2030年议程》提出了17个可持续发展目标,然后是《巴黎协定》。我们需要实现我们设定的目标,实现后世界会变得更好。

And the United Nation's member states- all 193 of them -have twice confirmed the commitment to sustainable development. First in 2015 with the Agenda 2030, which is where the 17 sustainable development goals are laid out. And then in the Paris Climate Agreement. Now we need to achieve what we have set out to do. If we do, the world will be a much better place.

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中国为可持续发展作出了重大贡献,首先消除了国内的贫困,其次是通过“一带一路”倡议等项目帮助其他国家进行基础建设,这些都是极其重要的积极贡献。

China has made major contributions to sustainable development. First and foremost, by ending poverty within China. A nd second, by helping other countries with basic infrastructure through projects like the Belt and Road Initiative. And these are extremely important and positive contributions.

我期待着中国在清理污染方面发挥主导作用,因为可持续发展包括采用一系列的绿色技术,我们需要改用低碳能源风能和太阳能、电动汽车、5G。

I look forward to China playing a leading role in cleaning up the pollution now. Because part of sustainable development is moving to a green set of technologies, we need to move to low carbon energy, wind and solar power, electric vehicles, 5G.

中国在这些领域都很强,为了实现环境的可持续发展,中国的领导力对本国的清洁空气和环境、对世界的环境都是极其重要的。

China has great capacity in all of these areas. And for its own clean air and its own environment, as well as for the world's environment, China's leadership is extremely important in order to achieve environmental sustainability .

观察中国的迅速增长不难发现,尤其是从1978年开始,这种发展是基于三个基本支柱:一个是投资于人民的健康和教育;第二个是建设基础设施,电力、连通性、公路、铁路、机场,这些都是生产力的基础;第三是让企业能够创造新产品和新市场。

If you look at China's very rapid growth, especially since 1978, it's been based on three basic pillars. One is investing in health and education of the people. The second has been building infrastructure, so that there is power, electricity, connectivity, roads, rail, airports – all as the basis for productivity. And the third is to enable business to create new products and new markets.

所以这其实是三种投资:对人的投资、对基础设施的投资和对企业经济的投资。

So it's been really three kinds of investment - investment in people, investment in infrastructure and investment in the business economy.

我想说中国帮助非洲完善基础设施,比如说帮助很多国家实现电气化就是在帮助这些国家取得和中国一样的成功,这是通过相互关联的投资来拉动经济。

And I would say that China by contributing to the infrastructure in Africa, for example, with electrification in many countries, is helping those countries achieve the same kind of success that China achieved. That is economic development based on these interconnected kinds of investments.

我很高兴看到像“一带一路”倡议这样的倡议或者是中国对非洲基础设施的投资,这是摆脱贫困从而实现可持续发展的解决方案的一部分。

So I'm very pleased with initiatives like the Belt and Road Initiative or with the China's investments in African infrastructure as being part of this solution for getting out of poverty and therefore achieving sustainable development.


从全球来看,到今年为止减少贫困取得了很多进展。全球贫困率从1990年的30%左右下降到2015年的10%左右,中国在其中发挥了巨大的作用。因为中国曾经非常贫穷,然后中国到2015年已经基本消除了贫困,现在到今年已经消除了所有的极端贫困。

Globally, there has been a lot of progress up until this year in fighting p overty. The rate of global poverty from 1990 at around 30% or so declines to around 10% by 2015. China played a huge role in that because China was overwhelmingly poor. And then it has already largely eliminated poverty by 2015, and now has eliminated all extreme p overty as of this year.

结束疫情是实现其他的必要条件

但是我们有两个问题:第一,依然有几亿人生活在真正的绝望当中,尤其是在非洲。第二,新冠疫情是一次很大的挫折,对于世界上许多地方的穷人来说这无疑是一次非常严重的危机。

But we had two problems. One, there were still hundreds of millions of people living in real desperation, especially in Africa. And second, COVID-19 has been a big setback. Definitely, this is a very, very serious crisis for poor people in many parts of the world.

因此我们面临的挑战不仅是完成我们正在进行的进程,还要结束这次疫情收复今年减贫工作的失地。

So the challenge is not only to complete a process that was underway, but also to stop this pandemic so that we can recover some of the lost ground this year.


我认为这个过程包括三部分:一是用中国的方法尽快结束疫情。希望未来一两年内能用上中国 、美国或者其他国家的疫苗,这是其一。

So I see a three-part process. One is ending the epidemic as soon as possible using the methods that China has used. Hopefully, we'll have vaccines, China, the United States, and others that could become available in the coming year or two. That's one part.

其二是通过“一带一路”等倡议来拓宽经济发展,正如我所提到的——关键是这些倡议应该是反污染 、可持续、基于可再生能源的。

The second part is to broaden economic development through initiatives like the Belt and Road Initiative. And there, as I mentioned, the key is that these should be anti-pollution, sustainable, renewable energy based initiatives.

然后第三部分应该是有针对性地帮助那些根深蒂固的高度贫困地区,由于地理或历史的原因,他们缺乏基本的基础设施,需要特殊的帮助。

And then the third should be targeted help to those places that have still high entrenched poverty, maybe because of their geography or their history. They don't have the basic infrastructure and they need special kind of help.

中国在这一点上做得很好,用一个综合的框架把基础设施和人力投资以及商业发展结合起来。中国可以利用自己的能力,在世界上贫困仍然根深蒂固的地区运用同样的方法减贫。

And so here's where China is so good developing an integrated framework of combining infrastructure, human investments and business development. And I think that China could use its capacity to do that in parts of the world where there still is entrenched poverty.

本世纪初我应邀访问中国西部时,当时的理念是——中国利用发展规划和公共投资,来促进那些未被前20年的快速增长覆盖到的地方的经济发展,中国就是这样做的。

When I was asked to visit western China in the early 2000s, the idea was that China would use its development planning and its public investments to spur growth in places that had been left behind by the first 20 years of rapid growth. And China did that.

全世界依然有一些地方,经济发展比较落后比如非洲撒哈拉地区。而中国非常善于把大投资项目、大工业项目和社会发展、卫生、教育等等结合起来,有了这样的组合即使是贫困成为沉疴痼疾的地方也可以摆脱贫困。

Well, there are still places on the planet that have been left behind, in the Sahara of Africa, for example. And China is very good at putting together big investment projects, big industrial projects and social development, health and education and so forth. With that combination, even these very-hard-to-solve places can also escape from poverty.

17个可持续发展目标中的第三项是全民健康,这一项至关重要,因为结束疫情是实现其他的必要条件。

Of course, SDG 3, which is health for all, is in the forefront, because stopping the pandemic is a necessary condition for achieving the rest.

互联网是中国能够遏制疫情的一大优势

我想说的第二个主要方面,我们最近几个月认识到的一个目标就是普及数字技术和电力的重要性。因为数字世界为我们提供了很多关键的工具,不仅可以阻止疫情,还能在这个时期让我们继续工作、继续提供服务比如健康和教育。

I would say that a second major, a goal that we have learned in recent months is the importance of access to digital technology and electricity because it has been the digital world that has provided so many crucial tools for us, for not only stopping the epidemic, but continuing our work and continuing our services like health and education during this period.

所以5G就更加重要了,连通性就更加重要了。

So 5G is all the more important. Connectivity is all the more important.

中国是世界上最大的互联网用户,这也是中国能够遏制疫情的一大优势。现在有的地方非常需要这种基础设施,我希望华为和其他公司能够帮助提供基础设施,因为它的重要性超越了以往。

And China's the world's biggest internet user, that's been a big feature of being able to contain the epidemic. There are places that need that infrastructure very much now. And I hope that Huawei and others can help to provide it, because this becomes even more important than we recognized in the past.

我认为我们必须要指出一个危机是,由于疫情的影响,数亿儿童没能去上学。我们知道接受教育对他们的未来至关重要,马云等人一直在倡导幼儿教育,尤其是在非洲。

Then a crisis that I think is extremely important to note is that because of the pandemic, hundreds of millions of children have not been in school and we know that this is crucial for their future. And Jack Ma among others has been championing education for young children, especially in Africa.

我们现在要想出创新的方法帮助这些孩子们重新赶上,回到校园使用线上学习、数字化学习等等,克服今年疫情带来的巨大障碍,所以有很多工作要做。

We need to be very creative now to help all of these kids catch up again, to get back to school, and to use online learning, digital learning and so forth in order to overcome the big obstacles that came with the pandemic this year. So there's a lot of work to do.

联合国精神应该重新回归

关于全球复苏我想提一下“一带一路”倡议和欧盟的复苏基金,都是指向新的公共投资,帮助全球复苏。

Then, when we think about the global recovery, I would add that the Belt and Road Initiative and the European Union recovery fund, both point to new public investments to help global recovery.

我希望看到欧洲和中国在这方面共同合作,建立一个欧亚的可持续的基础设施 可再生能源、能源互联、电动汽车 、智能交通等等。

And I would like to see Europe and China cooperate on building an Eurasian sustainable infrastructure, renewable energy, energy interconnection, electric vehicles, smart transport and so forth.

我认为公共投资投向中国开拓的这些技术前景非常可观,如果(中美两国)合作,欧盟、非洲联盟以及东盟和世界其他地区合作。我们真的可以取得令人难以置信的成就,不仅是遏制疫情,还有利用所有这些新技术、数字世界,使世界变得更美好。确保每个人都可以获得教育、医疗和其他许多基本服务,这一切在现在都是可能的。

I think there's a big future through public investments in exactly the kinds of technologies that China is pioneering. If we cooperate with the European Union and the African Union and ASEAN and other parts of the world, we really can achieve an incredible amount now, not only to stop this pandemic, but to also use all of these new technologies to make a better world. To ensure that everybody can have access to education, health care, and many other basic services. This is all possible right now.


冷战是最糟糕的主意,我们最不想看到的就是冷战。我们需要多边合作。

The cold war is the worst idea around. It's the last thing we need. We need multilateral cooperation.

中国和美国都是联合国的创始成员国,另一个重要的联合国文件——《世界人权宣言》,其中提到了经济权利、社会权利、文化权利、政治权利、公民权利。

Not only was China together with the United States in the founding of the UN, but if we look at another important UN document - the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, it talks about economic, social, cultural, political, civil rights.

中国对这份文件也有非常重要的贡献,其中有很多儒家思想的体现,因为《世界人权宣言》的起草人之一是一位伟大的中国学者,他曾在哥伦比亚大学接受高等教育。

This is also a document that was made with very important Chinese input. It's got a lot of Confucian ideas in it, because one of the great scholars contributed to it. He was often called one of the main authors of the Universal Declaration and was a great Chinese scholar, also trained in part at my university - Columbia University.

我觉得我们应该一起做的事情太多了。我个人认为,中国现在是世界上最伟大的文明之一,中国可以贡献的非常多,给联合国精神注入新的活力。我们应该利用这个机会,重新回归于联合国的核心理念,即人类的尊严、和平和可持续发展。

So I think there's so much we should do together. And I personally believe China is one of the world's great civilizations. It has so much to offer. And the UN is exactly the spirit in which this can be offered, that we should use this occasion to re-dedicate ourselves to the very core of the UN, which is human dignity, peace and sustainable development.

这些都是伟大的概念,在这些概念上各国没有任何分歧,各国都完全认同这些概念。因此,我们应该共同努力实现这些概念。

These are great concepts. Nothing divides our countries on those concepts. They are completely shared concepts for everybody. And so we should work together to achieve them.

美国现在是非常反合作的

现在的情况非常危险,这主要是美国政客和一些美国官员造成的。他们是非常极端的民族主义者,他们认为美国需要消除全球范围的竞争,美国必须是全球主导国家,许多美国人认为做全球主导国家是上帝赋予美国人的权利。

The situation is very dangerous and it's mostly the result of US politicians and some US officials who are very extremely nationalistic. And they take the view that the United States needs to be without any global competition and has to be the dominant country in the world. And many Americans believe that this is somehow even a God-given right of Americans to be the dominant country.

这是一个非常危险的想法,因为未来的世界应该是共同繁荣的世界。

It's a very dangerous idea, because we should be looking for a world in which prosperity is shared everywhere.

一个简单的数字现实是中国越来越繁荣,因为中国的人口比美国多,它将成为一个比美国更大的经济体。这并不会让我担心,共同繁荣是正常的。

And it's a simple arithmetical fact that as China becomes more prosperous, because there are more people in China than in the United States, it will become a bigger economy than the United States. That's not something I worry about. This is just natural that prosperity is shared.

中国当然会成为最大的经济体,因为中国人口最多,还有印度,而且收入也在迅速上升。但这让很多美国政客思维上陷入混乱,尤其是特朗普,他是一个非常狂热的民族主义者,一切围绕美国,与世界无关,这就是反应。在我看来这非常危险,破坏性非常高。

Of course, China will be the largest economy, because it has the most people, together with India, and has a rapidly rising income. But this has made a lot of American politicians very disorganized in their thinking. And especially if you are like Trump, who is a very virulent nationalist. It's only America. It's not about the world. This is the reaction. It's, in my opinion, very dangerous and very destructive.

但与此同时中国不应该过度陷入与美国的论战,因为联合国有193个国家,也就是说除了美国和中国之外,还有191个国家。

But in the meantime, I don't think that China should also be pulled into the American controversy so much, because there are 193 countries in the UN and that means other than the US and China, there are 191 other countries.

我主张中国与这191个国家搞好关系,因为这会让中国所面对的世界更好更安全。

And I would urge China to have good relations with those other 191 countries, because that will make the world safer and make the world better for China, too.

我们需要合作,而美国现在是非常抗拒合作的、反合作的,但我不希望中国也因此变得抗拒合作。我希望中国能加强与其他国家的合作,这样能凸显出与另一个国家的不同。美国说美国优先,但是中国说全世界一起,我认为这才是正确的做法。

We need cooperation. And the United States is in a very non-cooperative mood right now - anti-cooperative, but I wouldn't let that provoke China to become anti-cooperative also. I would rather see China become even more cooperative with other countries to point out the difference with the behaviour of one coun try that says America first, but China says the whole world together. And I think that this is the right approach.

我们面临着非常复杂的挑战应该用理性和严肃的态度来应对,不管是新冠疫情或者是气候变化、消除贫困,目标应该是通过理性的合作来解决这些问题。

Well, we face a very complex challenge and we should approach them with rationality and with seriousness. And so if it's COVID-19, or if it's climate change, or if it's fighting poverty, the goal should be to solve these problems through rational cooperation.


而理性的合作意味着透彻的分析,然后合作执行。新冠疫情不是引发冲突的机会,而是合作的机会。 我们需要控制住这种病毒,遏制住各地的疫情,我们只有合作行动,才能解决这些问题。

And rational cooperation means good analysis, and then cooperative implementation. COVID-19 is not a case for conflict. It's a case for cooperation. We need to end this virus, get it under control everywhere. This kind of change can only be solved if we're acting cooperatively.

问题是像特朗普这样的政客想要挑起恐惧和仇恨,不幸的是,在人类的本性中很多人都有可能被这样的情绪裹挟,然后情况就会变得非常危险。

And so, the problem is when politicians like Trump, try to stir up fear and hate. Unfortunately, in our human nature, it's possible to do that with many people. And then the situation can be very dangerous.

我希望我们很快就有机会重新建立正常的、积极的关系,我建议我们两个国家美国和中国全年都在非常专业的层面上、在所有具有共同利益的问题上合作,不仅仅是一年一次的G20会议,美国、中国、欧盟以及其他想要合作的国家坚持不懈地、专业地、集中地来解决问题,因为如果我们这样做地球上几乎没有什么问题是我们不能共同解决的。

I'm hoping that we'll have the opportunity soon to reset normal, constructive relations. And what I would recommend is serious work as our two countries, the United States and China, round the year, at a very professional level, working together on all of the issues of common interest, not just a meeting at the G20 once a year, but the US, China, European Union, and others who want to partner cooperative, ongoing, professional intensive problem solving. Because if we did that, there's hardly a problem on the planet that we couldn't solve together.

“中国是一个有侵略性的国家?太荒谬了!”

我注意到中国在现代历史和传统中比世界上任何其他国家都要稳定,例如在过去的四十年里,中国没有参与过任何海外战争,在那之前有一场短暂的战争。

Well, I personally take note of the fact that China in its modern history and in its tradition has been a stable country for longer than any other place in the world. And it has not in the last forty years,for example, been engaged in any war overseas, and one brief war before that.

与此同时,自1980年以来美国大概参与了十几场战争,所以毫无疑问我们可以拥有一个和平的世界。和平符合中国的利益,也符合美国的利益。

But in the meantime, the United States has been engaged in probably about a dozen wars since 1980. So I think that there's no question that we can have a peaceful world, and that it is in China's interest for peace, and it's in America's interest for peace also.

人们声称中国是一个有侵略性的国家,这太荒谬了,照照镜子吧。

And when people claim that China's an aggressive country, well, that's ridiculous. I say, look in the mirror.

而且我们要明白我们不应该互相指责,我们应该建设性地讨论问题。

And let's understand that we shouldn't be making accusations, we should be constructively discussing issues.


不幸的是,在过去的四十年里美国发动的战争超过其他大国,这是个大问题,因为战争根本没有解决任何引起这些冲突的政治问题,因此通过军事手段看待政治问题是一种糟糕的、过时的政策。

And the US has launched a lot more wars, unfortunately, in the last 40 years than any other major power. And that's a big problem, because war has not solved any of the political problems that led to those conflicts at all. So it's just a bad, outdated, antiquated policy to view political issues through military means.

问题是当这种非常激烈的言论出现时,我们可能最终会陷入非常危险的军备竞赛,可能最终会发生意外冲突。

The problem is that when you have this kind of very heated rhetoric, we can end up in a very dangerous arms race, and we can end up with accidental confrontations.

所有这些都让我非常担心,因为上一次冷战,美苏冷战,这一时期非常危险,也是人类精力的巨大浪费。它导致了很多冲突,有几次差点演变成全球性的灾难,所以我们不想再次朝那段历史发展。

All of this worries me a lot, because the last cold war that we had, the United States with the Soviet Union, was a very dangerous period, and a huge waste of human effort. And it led to a lot of conflict and on a couple of occasions to near complete global disaster. So we don't want to go anywhere close to that history again.

我为我教过的中国学生感到骄傲

大学这个词代表天地万物包罗万象,所以在大学里全球合作非常普遍。在大学几百年、几千年的历史中,大学之间都是相互联系的。

University means the universe. It means that everything included. And so at a university, global cooperation is very normal. And throughout the history of universities for hundreds of years, in fact, thousands of years, universities have been connected with each other.

我担任联合国一个项目的负责人,是由大学组成的项目叫做可持续发展解决方案网络。很多中国的大学都参与了这个项目,这很正常。

And I direct for the United Nations, a network of universities called the Sustainable Development Solutions Network that has many Chinese universities as partners, for example, and this is normal.

但是后来,特朗普等极端民族主义者想要阻止这种合作。他们说中国正在拿走我们的技术,好像那是美国的技术,而不是全世界的。好像限制签证就能阻止技术的传播,这个过程充满了危险和自我毁灭,因为我们需要相互联系。

But then as part of this very, very bad idea of the extreme nationalism of Trump, they're trying to stop this kind of cooperation right now because they say, China's taking our technology, as if it's American technology rather than world know-how. And as if somehow you can stop the spread of knowledge by shutting a visa. It's a very self-defeating and dangerous process because we need the interconnections.

我为四十年来我教过的中国学生感到骄傲,他们现在都是金融或者其他行业的高层,他们让我非常骄傲。我第一次见到他们的时候,他们是非常友善的年轻人,现在他们年纪增长,但依然非常友善而且非常非常成功。因此,学术交流是一个很好的接触点。

I'm so proud of my students that I've had from China for four decades who are now senior officials and leaders in finance and in other sectors. And they make me very proud. They were extremely nice young people when I first met them. Now they're extremely nice older people and very, very successful. And so this has been one of the great points of contact.

完整视频↓

编辑:付慧敏

实习生:冯婉婷

中国日报社于9月16日举办线上“新时代大讲堂”,邀请中外联合国官员、资深外交官、学者围绕2020年中国全面建成小康社会、联合国成立75周年、中国在联合国落实2030年可持续发展目标中的作用等议题发表演讲。持续关注,聆听世界的声音。

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